2012 — Lion Babe First Ever Show + Q&A

By Moshe Alpert-Eschbach

New York City music lovers recently came together to celebrate new musical group duo, Lion Babe, for their music video release party. The night also marked their official first New York City show.

Hosted at Leftfield in the Lower East Side, the packed audience was treated to an incredible performance of Lion Babe material, including the recently released debut single Treat Me Like Fire, as well as a cover of Erykah Badu’s classic Bag Lady. Directly after the performance, guests were treated to the Treat Me Like Fire music video premiere. While guests, including the man behind the mane, Chuckie Amos, and Ty Hunter, Beyonce’s stylist, watched the video, they enjoyed catered food from Cheeky Sandwiches.

Lion Babe is fronted by Jillian Hervey and produced by Lucas Goodman.

Q&A

Moshe: For those who don’t know yet, who is Lion Babe?

Jillian: Lion Babe is Lucas and I, me being Jillian. We are starting out as a duo right now. The actual name Lion Babe just kind of happened and it made a lot of sense to both of us. For me personally I had several experiences to lead up to that name. When I went to South Africa we went on Safari and the moment I finally saw a lioness I had a very real exchange with the animal. For me it was a time when I was in college and finding myself, figuring out who I was, getting more confident in what I wanted to do in my artistry. That experience of being in the wild in a place where I know we all started out and came from as humans, it was a very real kind of permission allowed or granted from this lioness to me to really own my shit. At the point, I know this is so literal but that was when I was long brown hair extension girl, doing the college thing, growing up. As soon as I changed my hair and went natural and dyed it to a blonde color, I really did feel like the lioness. I really embodied that, I know people think I really did, but I really feel that way, I feel strong.

Moshe: All stemming from…

Jillian: All stemming from that particular experience in South Africa. That’s kind of when I first got obsessed with lions. I’ve always been an animal lover my entire life, but that was the specific instance where lions kind of took over for me. And then meeting Lucas, I think just from family that I’m into astrological signs and he’s a Leo and I thought that was interesting. And I’m a Gemini. It just kind of works. Lion Babe, babe, I’m a babe. I knew that as a duo I was going to be the face of this band. I wanted something that was ambiguous, it could be someone, but it could also be a band. It doesn’t have to be one singular idea and its open to interpretation even though both words are so literal. We were brainstorming words and that was the first thing that happened, but we knew lion was going to be in it. That’s the one thing we knew. We didn’t know if it was going to be lioness, we didn’t know if it was going to be something lion, but we knew lion was thing main thing. I think me becoming a lion and then meeting a Leo lion, that’s how it happened.

Moshe: Thank g-d for that trip! You just had your music video release party, what was the experience likes as new artists? Getting that feedback from the crowd.

Jillian: The experience alone was incredible. The turnout alone was incredible.

Moshe: When I saw jam-packed, there was no standing room. People showed up!

Jillian: People showed up. It was our first thing and people showed up. And on top of that, when it came to actually finding a venue, ideally we were looking for a place that had a screening room, it had this, and it had a stage, and it had a bar and whatever, but realistically we’re two kids in New York trying to do this thing. That’s why its even more incredible because we have done everything just the two of us, built from the ground up just going at it. That’s why [it was held where it was] the Lower East Side is the area that I have come into my own. We were looking at Meatpacking, we were thinking about Uptown, Brooklyn, whatever, and I was like, it was has to be in that area because that’s where it all happened and where it still is happening. That place was just friends of friends, the same way everything happens, that’s how it all worked out. The turnout alone was so incredible because to have been working on something for so long, not that long but two years is a long time for a 23 year old, and for working that long and never really having an opportunity to show for it at all, no one had heard my music, no one had seen anything, no one had ever seen us live, no one knew anything, so this was the big “kaboom” of like at least we’re out there! We’re making our first splash. The energy alone, myself, Lucas, Josh who drummed, anyone could’ve felt the positive good vibes. There was a lot excitement in the room. I think I’m just excited because everyone knew that this was the beginning of a new thing for me, but a beginning of a new thing for a lot of people. It was a really big celebration of the people in my life that inspire me and I was finally given this opportunity to share it. I felt very proud and just excited, it was so exciting.

Moshe: We were all just standing up, holding hands, and crying.

Jillian: I was trying not to lose it. Afterwards, seeing people that came out from The New School, seeing people that came out from my high school, people from my high school that I have not talked too since 6th grade, literally! And she was like ‘I know this is weird but I just bought your song on itunes and I have to come’. I was like oh my g-d! This is unbelievable. It was just so great. Of course the only time I did lose it was as soon as I saw my father, and I knew I was going too. That man is a lot to me, so when I walked up to him, that’s when it all burst out and he hugged me.

Moshe: What did he say?

Jillian: Well of course him having the background of being a PR manager his whole life and working with everyone, he was like ‘well the sound is this and this and this’ but honestly its good to have at least one person that will say that, but at the same time he was so excited, and he was so excited about the turn out too! He was like ‘I didn’t know you could get this many people’. I’m like neither did I!

Moshe: It was incredible.

Jillian: Yeah, it was great and it’s a good thing to have as a first thing because when we go to book more shows, we’ll be like ‘well, we can bring a… we got people’.

Moshe: As new artists what is it like to be so positively received?

Jillian: Well I think when you put so much positivity, energy, and love into something, that’s what people see and I poured myself into this. Even dancing my whole life, I love dancing and I will continue to dance, but the work I made even in college was under some sort of restriction. It had to be X amount of minutes long or this and this and this. This was the first time I just thought of something and I did it and that’s what it was. I think the reason people are so either taken by or attracted to it, I mean its funny looking at comments! People love it, people think I’m weird, people think I’m crazy, I love it! I’m like, I am crazy, you have to be weird and crazy to do your own thing and the thing is I think we’re standing out because we are different, because we’re doing exactly what we need to be doing.

Moshe: Watching the video, you can see that they’re not taking the stereotypical route.

Jillian: I was shaped in college into a performance artist. That’s what happened. I never really thought of myself as being one singular thing, I think of myself as an artist and I feel no restrictions when it comes to how I want to portray what I want to portray.

Moshe: What is the next step? The EP is coming.

Jillian: I live for the stage. I am a performer more than anything. Everyone learns a lot from performing so I don’t think theres a way to grow and expand our music without performing. Obviously, we’re working on the EP, but that’s really what we’re doing, we’re booking shows and trying to build our fan base in New York… But we’re going to build it up. I want a horn section, I want a band! I know that doesn’t happen as easily now, but I’m looking to infuse the beat-based electronic sound that Lucas is so great at with the live band because when you have those two together, I don’t think it happens that much in way where its actually all happening… I want to find a way that it all works together…It doesn’t need to be one sided at all. I want to make sure our shows end up being an experience of both.

Moshe: What sounds, artists, and styles motivate and inspire you?

Jillian: Because this is all new, everything is coming from different places. Sometimes for fun I will be like I want to write a song like this person, and I’ll think of that person and I’ll write a song. But its never like that person, it ends up being something completely different. When I first was getting into this I was really into Erykah Badu at the time that I wrote Treat Me Like Fire, so it does not surprise me that people thought I sounded like her. I think when it came to the second verse of that song, I wrote the second verse of that song probably six months later, so the demo version was basic and I was like there isn’t enough happening in this song, and it wasn’t until I really put myself into the song, which was in the second verse. That part is when I really thought the song came together. I literally was just trying to feel the beat and that’s the thing I really respect about her [Badu} because she is a rhythm goddess to me. There’s never a time where I listen to her and I’m like “oh, she’s off, I’m not feeling it.” You feel it. You feel that inner rhythm within her. Those people are the people I really take off of. It goes back to James Brown. People that are spewing out rhythm. Where they can’t not. Growing up the two major soundtracks my mom would play was Tribe Called Quest, The Anthology and Sgt. Pepper’s Lonely Hearts Club Band. It’s funny because those two albums had such a strong influence on me without me even realizing because when I look back on my music, its all over the place. I was listening to guru masters of hip-hop with Q-tip, all those beats, unbelievable shit, and then The Beatles. Sgt. Pepper’s Lonely Hearts Club Band is such a great album because it goes all over the place. Its everything in there. Growing up with those kind of influences did mesh it together to make something unique. Going back even further, I just love, love. I love, love songs. I love old jazz like Billie Holliday and Ella Fitzgerald. I love that whole feeling where people are just singing their heart out and there is beautiful violence crying behind. I’ve always been into that. The first movie I ever saw was Singing in the Rain when I was really little. That movie and The Wizard of Oz were the first movies I ever watched and I watched them forever and ever and ever. And even Frank Sinatra, that sound is such a beautiful, that’s real music to me. Old Hollywood. Its always been magical to me. I miss that in music. I think about my grandparents and how they would turn on the radio and they probably were listening to Frank Sinatra and they could sit in their homes and have this beautiful moment with each other with this beautiful music. There’s a timelessness when it comes to those kind of sounds. I can go with this forever. The Miseducation of Lauryn Hill was huge for me. That was actually one of the first times I kind of switched gears. I grew up in a town with a bunch of white kids, which is totally fine, but I listened to ‘N Sync, Spice Girls and whoever, but that was kind of the first time I was like “woah, what is she doing? How did she make this?” Every song, I learned every word. I would listen to that thing on loop. That really changed me. That’s when I was like that’s how I want to sing, that’s what I really want to do. She changed the game for me. My dad, he worked with everyone so even the stories he’s been telling me my whole life made me have a certain appreciation for people in 60s and 70s soul music and rock and roll…. His favorite artist was Jimi Hendrix and him again, as a lyricist, changed my life. Castles Made of Sand was one of the most beautiful songs I’d ever heard ever and I just loved the imagery in it. I was like if I ever would want to write a song, like actually the lyrics in it, I wish I could do something like that, its so magical. He was incredible. … When I was younger I didn’t realize how much black music was having an impact on me. Now it goes further back to even performers as those were people that also inspired me; like Diana Ross. Just the way she was and the way she looked was something I’d never forget. Now I know Diana Ross, but before I just saw pictures of her and was like this girl is the best! I was like “oh my god Diana and Donna Summers. These ladies, who are these ladies?” Then you hear their music and its amazing. Now, I’m just like an open book. Lucas and I, we listen to music from everywhere. In high school I went all rock and roll. I loved The Ramones and The Clash and even modern day bands like The Hives and The Vines and The Stokes and The Black Keys and The Walkmen. I had that whole indie faze too, like Sigur Ros. Seventh grade was Jack Johnson and G. Love & Special Sauce. All of the surfer people, I wanted to be a surfer?! I went through many stages just growing up into a person. Still to this day, I don’t put myself into one category. If you listen to my laptop, it goes all over the place, its kind of embarrassing sometimes. Its not even like I don’t like them anymore, but it was just such a different time for me, but when I was younger I loved Coldplay and its kind of just not my thing anymore. I don’t know, its just cause. I have a lot of respect for them. The bands that get huge maintain that sound I really loved about them. I’m very eclectic. I’m eclectic with everything. We were writing a bio and I was like I definitely consider us chameleons because we both share so many different views of beats we like and things we like to do…. I’m all over the place because this is still so new. Maybe down the line, we could come and sit here in three years and I will know exactly what my sound is, but I don’t know yet because its so new. We’re just playing. That’s where it happens.

Moshe: What is the writing process like?

Jillian: There’s times where I hear a full song in my head and I’m like Lucas, I just wrote a song. I’ll just sing it into my phone because it will just come out of me. There’s other times where I’ll hear a melody or a rhythm. Sometimes words come easily and sometimes they don’t. If they’re coming really hard, the one day they do, it all comes at the same time. Most songs take me twenty minutes to write. Its all over the place. I have my journal, which is free writing, me just spewing things. Sometimes its lyrics, sometimes it’s a list, sometimes it’s a drawing, whatever. If I ever feel really lost, I find myself looking in there, and sometimes something will just emerge from that. But a lot of times I’m listening to the beat and I just start humming something. Sometimes I hear sounds that I’m just trying to place works into. That’s what the music is supposed to do, its supposed to give you that feeling and the responsibility of the songwriter is to carry out whatever that feeling is. A lot of times I sing about love, but all these songs make me feel love. If there’s ever a purpose behind the songs, two of my favorite songs were both for family members. One was for my litter sister and, that one, it just came out of me immediately because I just love her and I knew wanted it to be a message to her and a message to myself and to all children. The other one was for my cousin who is getting married. Both of them just came out. Sometimes I’m like maybe I should just write songs for everyone, maybe it will come out faster. Now when I even think about how Treat Me Like Fire was written its just funny because I was trying to write it. I was like you go outside, I was sitting in my bed, I made him leave the room. When I wrote fire I wasn’t even comfortable singing in front of Lucas. I could tell that he thought I was thinking about it. Because he would be making beats and doing his thing and I would come and look and then I’d walk away and he’d be like “oh, you want to come in here?” I’d be like “oh, no its okay” but then I’d be humming and he’d be like “what did you say something” and I’d say “oh no, no, I wasn’t saying anything”. It would go on like that for awhile. Finally, I was like what am I doing? The thing is the only thing blocking myself is myself. He would be for it. In the demo for fire, I’m almost talking, that’s how it came out. I was just trying to be cool. I was thinking how do I sound cool? Because the beat was so good I was like oh my g-d, I don’t know if I can do this. That’s why I did it in the other room. So I’m like writing down hey boy, I like your style, I was like I wouldn’t say that? But I would say that! But maybe I wouldn’t say that, I maybe would sing it. Overanalyzing. Way over. That’s the thing, I feel like I do that a lot and then finally when I stop thinking, that’s when it happens. And whenever I really don’t know, I start dancing, I feel rhythm, and then I’m like I should sing something to that rhythm.

Moshe: Is dancing something you want to incorporate into the live show?

Jillian: Of course, that was the only bummer I had for the space that we did our first, but its fine, I thought it was nice how everyone was packed in. But I’m a dancer, that’s really what I am. I’m in love with singing, singings great because its new and its exciting, and I plan on doing it forever, but I really love dancing. That’s where it all happened and feels incredible. To bring my voice when it comes to dancing to any audience is always exciting for me, and to do it in a place where I can be dancing to my own music is crazy! I never even thought would be possible and that’s definitely the plan. You will not, not see me dancing. I really don’t consider myself a mainstream artist, its crazy what has happened in three weeks though, because we’re on Vibe. I really consider myself a dancer and when I think about if I ever get to a big time show, I do not think about any of the dance performances I’ve seen, ever. I want to dance like I like to dance. I don’t know what that’s going to be yet and it goes from all over the place, but I definitely want to expose people who have never seen probably my biggest heroes or know anything about them. I don’t know how many people know nothing about dance. Great friends who know that I’ve been dancing my entire life, they don’t know anything. If I can just give them a little bit of that, because dance is such a powerful form, it just doesn’t get what it should, in the way that it should. I think with all these new shows like Dancing with the Stars and So You Think You Can Dance, I think its great that dance has finally come back into the mainstream world, get people excited about bodies moving and space, but that’s not really what’s happening there. I want to punch a whole through the entertainment business. I just want to do art, I really do. People just try to put you in a box and I don’t see myself in any particular box. I’m making my own box. There’s no way I would be able to make the music I’m making without dancing…. There’s going to be times where I want to create a solo work that Lucas writes music to, and we shoot a video and that’s it. I might not even sing. Its out there. Both are equally important to me. If music gives me the opportunity to be out there and have a larger audience, I’m going to do that, but don’t expect me to sing the whole time. I’m going to be doing everything. I want to act and I want to perform. So, I think its exciting and I’m just going to keep doing what I fuckin do.

Moshe: People want you to specialize. You just have to do you.

Jillian: All the people that I look up to, they might have followed something and they might have influences, but the reason they are who they are is because they are who they are. They’re separate from each other because they have a uniqueness in the way they’ve gone at things. Michael Jackson is amazing because he figured out his formula and knew that he was an incredible dancer. Using the spectacle of influencing from Bob Fosse and all that amazing movement, he knew that, that was exciting for him and he knew that it could be exciting for other people. And he perfected it and that’s why he’s the greatest pop star of all time. I’m not looking to be the greatest pop star of all time. I want to be an artist. I want to influence people and I want to get people to think about the world. I just want them to think and talk to each other and connect. I want my shows to be a place where people of all different facets of life can come together and celebrate and meet each other and start new experiences. I think my music reflects my experience in New York City. NYC is an extremely eclectic place, its always moving, its always different, and you feel different everyday. The only thing you can do is keep moving forward and document your life in some sort of way and share it with the people you love. And run into new people and find out that, that person knows that person. I just really want to play. Serious play, that’s what my teachers were telling me and that’s what its all about. I don’t think that I should ever lose my childhood imagination and creativity because without that, what is the point? This world is going in all sorts of directions, but I think all you can do is get people to think about things in a different way, because sometimes people aren’t even thinking. I’ve seen people respond to shit immediately and they’re like “this is a little bit too Rihanna for me.” Someone said that. I know that alone, that’s just one of those things. As a black woman, if I do something, I’m going to be compared to those people. Whatever. I feel really good because I’ve grown up in the world already. I’m still growing of course, I’m a baby, but I’ve had enough experience on my own without any of that, that I’m comfortable with myself and I love myself and the work I’m doing. Of course I care about people’s opinions, but I just care about them having opinions. I don’t care about their actual opinions. That doesn’t mean I’m not going to listen to them, I’m not going respond to them, and I’m not going to react to them, its just that, that’s not going to bother me. It feels really great and empowering and makes me more confident that because of that alone, that’s not going to sway me from doing the things I want to do. I don’t see myself being with a label because that’s just not how I’m going to do stuff. I know for me, I wrote the song, I had to edit the video myself, I had to do all of my makeup, I had to make my costume, I had to everything because I wanted to do everything. When you’re an artist, it would almost feel weird to give some else that total control. There’s so many people where It’s fine, that’s what they want to be, they want to be the face of this, or they want to be this, but for me, if it’s going to be my face, people whether they know where it came from or not, are going to have reactions to how I’m delivering the message, and if its not actually from me, than that isn’t right me. I think you need to have honest things in the world. Even if people don’t understand it, if its coming from you, that’s already more important.

Moshe: What were you wearing? The hair! Who did it?!

Jillian: This was one of those things, obviously knowing me, I was like I want to do this all by myself, but Chuckie Amos, the guy who does my hair, he made my mane for the video. I’ve known him since I was a very little girl, so he already knew what I was like with the wild hair. I thought it would be really fun to have a mane. This is Lion Babe, lets do something kind of out of the ordinary. It was great, it made me feel like I had another attachment to myself. I had gotten a friend of mine, they have a vintage collection, they go around all over the United States and pick vintage pieces. They’ve been so helpful because I didn’t know where to go or begin when it came to what to wear for this or this. But also, I’ve always loved vintage and I never like to have something someone else has. That’s just not me. So I looked around and I found a bunch of stuff through them, but once that hair was on my head I was like I don’t need anything else! All the energy is coming out of my hair right now, so I don’t need anything. I wear black everyday, so its like if I’m not wearing black it would feel wrong. I was going to wear a dress and all that stuff, but I was like I need to just wear my jeans and my boots because I want to. The corset that I wore is a black leather corset and strangely enough, when I was out in LA this last thanksgiving, my aunt gave it to me. It was my great grandmothers. She was my dad’s mom’s mom. She was a fashion designer in the 1920s. She had two of them and she asked me try it on and it fit me like a glove. It was crazy and that’s the thing, that’s always how shit works. The gold mesh thing I wear in the video is from Rupaul’s Drag Race. I cut it up and I changed it, but Chad and Shannell gave that to me and that was an incredible experience. I’ve used the same couple pieces in all my work because they’re sacred to me and they represent me.… Pieces with history, stuff that really means a lot to me that even people won’t recognize what it is, it is of value and its another statement that’s understated within the whole thing. I felt really great to be wearing that. I never met her but I felt her on stage with me. It was like feeling the power of the generations of women in my family. And to know that she was wearing something like that, I was like theres nothing else to wear except this.

Moshe: Do you think of the fashion side to it all a lot?

Jillian: I think I’m always thinking of that. If you look at my blog, there’s so many different eras that I’m inspired by and so many different looks, but it’s never going to feel right if its not me. I don’t really think of putting together outfits that much, I think of putting together feelings of an outfit. People ask if I’m going to get a stylist but I honestly don’t know. I would feel weird having someone style me. I’ve had those experiences and every time it happens I don’t feel good. It really has to come from me. What’s the point of putting all this work into something and then when you present it, it’s not you? They weren’t there for that. They don’t know what you’re talking about. The only way for you to really get it across is for you to put it together yourself. Not everyone does that but for me that’s what I have to do.

Moshe: How did Lion Babe actually come together?

Jillian: Well, we should probably go back to how I met Lucas. My mom’s best friend, her son, Zack, I’ve known him since I was a baby, the two of them went to college together. When I was a senior in high school I went to look at Northeastern to see if they had a dance program…. I go and [Zack] takes me out to this house party and of course it’s a dude fest, skater bros everywhere. I’m a little high school girl, still very innocent, not the girl you see in the video. I was wearing a white dress to the party, trying to be all cute… So I get to this party and there was this song playing and it was really crazy so I was like what is this? What is this Zack I’ve never heard it? And he was like oh it’s this dude Astro Raw… he’s sitting on the couch. I was listening and it just sounded crazy, the rhythms were crazy, but it got my attention. I was listening to it and I was so shy. I was like in the corner. Zach was like you can go say hi if you want, you don’t have to be scared. I walk over to Lucas and say “hi, I really like your music”. And then he said “oh, thanks”. Done. That was it. That was the end of it. I remember going home that next day and was like I’m going to look up Astro Raw, maybe I can find his music. So I followed him on his facebook fan page for his music. Three years down the line when I was at The New School, when I would get random invites on where he was playing, I was like I so want to go to this but it would be so weird. So I just didn’t do anything. Finally, for The New School I had to go back to Boston for the American Dance Festival. I was selected to do a piece and it was at Northeastern. I ended up staying with my best friend who had transferred there and she knew them. It was one of those universe things. Her roommate was dating one of Lucas’ best friends. And then of course my friend Zack was still in Boston and I asked him what he was doing. He was like I’m at a bar, come out, so I go there. Then I meet Lucas for the second time and that was also it. He was at the bar and we talked for a little bit and then we didn’t really talk that much anymore, but then afterwards, I actually became his facebook friend from there. I knew he was from New York City so I was like “well if you’re home we’ll hang out.” We started hanging out. This was end of junior year. Winter of junior year was when I went out there and then we met up that next summer. So it was not that long of a time just hanging out. I met a few of his friends and they were making music. Finally, one time he was at my apartment in the West Village and he was just listening to music and I think I was just like fine, I’m going to finally sing for him. I started singing and he was like “what?” and I was like “oh, well I can sing I just never really do” and he was like “well, why not?” and I was like “I don’t know. I’ve always wanted too, just never knew where to begin.” He was like “well why don’t you just sing to this.” And then we made it and then we realized, not that we had something huge or anything, but we were like this could work. All of a sudden I just got excited about it. From there we started working on little things. We didn’t know, we were just making stuff for fun. I didn’t think I was going to make a band at all. I really didn’t. But I think we got so into it that we didn’t realize we were already doing that work. And then once we had more songs happening, we were like well, lets start thinking about this. We had a normal conversation about what we would want to do with it and what we would want to be. We were like we will probably be a duo right now, because we are a duo right now. We didn’t think about names until way down the line. Besides that, the only other time he really worked with me was when he did the music for the piece I did at Dance Theatre Workshop. The animal piece. That was the first time I really saw him put together a work and I was like “this is really cool, we could really do something, you knew exactly what I was talking about.” That was the first real thing, so that was kind of cool because the first time I heard him was music and then he first saw me dance. I remember I had wanted animal sounds but I didn’t know how and he just found the animal sounds. Its great almost to have that be the first thing and then now have Lion Babe because its like, if people don’t know that I’m obsessed with animals yet, like come on, I am! Its kind of good to have that happen the way it did. It just happened. I think everyone comes into your life for a reason and he came into mine through his music, literally.